The Duke of Sussex gave an explosive interview to ITV ahead of the launch of his book on Tuesday. Prince Harry's memoir, Spare, details a behind-the-scenes look at his life, his family and the moments that led to him moving to the United States with his wife Meghan and his family.
In the first of four revealing interviews, the Prince sat down with ITV journalist and longtime friend Tom Bradby. The 55-year-old actor attended Harry and Meghan's wedding.
Topics discussed included the alleged falling out between Harry and Prince William, Harry's battle with mental health, and the aftermath of his mother's death. Here are all the words spoken during the interview, including the narrations from the Prince's book:
Filed reporter voice: Your Royal Highness, can we see your son?
Voiced by Bradby: He's the most talked about man on the planet, who has now written an autobiography...
Bradby: Nice to see you.
Harry: Tom, nice to see you.
Voiced by Bradby: ...that's so unbelievably blunt, it's less of a real life spotlight than lightning.
Harry Reading Excerpt: My God. Sibling rivalry. Still not over it? All heir versus spare?
He grabbed me by the neck, ripped off my necklace and threw me to the ground.
Bradby: Your brother wouldn't say to you, "Harry, how could you do this to me after all, after all we've been through?" Isn't that what he would say?
Harry: He'd probably say all sorts of different things.
Bradby Narrator: Harry and I have known each other for over 20 years, through thick and thin. So he invited me to California to talk about a book that needed a long bed after reading.
Excerpt from Harry's reading: She started to play the long game. A campaign aimed at marriage and eventually the crown.
Bradby: Do you still believe in the monarchy?
harry: sim
Bradby: Do you think you'll play a role in the future?
Harry: I don't know. I really don't know.
Harry Reading Excerpt: I love my country and I love my family and always will. I only wish, in the second darkest moment of my life, that they were both there for me.
Bradby: You didn't burn your bridges so much as you threw a flamethrower at them.
Harry: Well, they have shown absolutely no desire to reconcile.
Bradby Narrator: It is, if you'll excuse the pun in the title, a ruthless tale of an extraordinary life.
Bradby: There's a fair amount of drugs, weed, magic mushrooms, cocaine. I mean, it's going to blow people away.
Harry: But it's important to acknowledge.
Bradby Narration: He says, the simple truth.
Harry: I would like my father back. I would like to have my brother back.
Bradby: If so, a lot of it is amazing.
Clapper loader: Harry an interview.
Harry: Harry the interview? What an original name!
Bradby: Either way, this is an extraordinary story and from your perspective, it's a holistic account of your life and I would say to anyone who sits and watches tonight, whatever you think, whatever happened, this book is, it takes things to a whole new level because it's a complete account for you, for your life. However, I think I should start with a simple question: why, why did you write it?
Harry: 38 years, 38 years of having my story told by so many different people, um, with intentional twisting and distortion, I felt like it was a good time to own my story and be able to tell it for myself. You know, no, I don't think if I was still a part of the Institution I would have that opportunity. So I'm very grateful that I had the opportunity to tell my story because it's my story to tell.
Bradby: Now almost everyone who sees this is going to be from a family and the idea that someone in the family is going to tell the world, all the arguments and family secrets would be very hard on people and of course the accusation will be you. Yes. You did this to finance your new lifestyle, effectively trading family secrets. So how do you justify the level of disclosure in this book?
Harry: Well, there was one, which I guess a lot of people already know, there was a motto, a family motto of 'never complain, never explain'. And what people have realized now, through the Netflix documentary, the documentary, and the countless stories published over the years, is that this was just a tagline. There were many complaints and many explanations and it continues now.
Um, but for me, I'm sitting here right now, talking to you, answering the questions that you ask me, um, and the words and the truth will come out of my lips instead of using other people, especially through sensational media. Um, and we've been at this for six years, um, and I've spent every year of those six, doing everything I can in private, to hang out with my family.
And the saddest thing, Tom, is that it never had to be like this. It was never necessary to get to that point. I've had conversations, I've written letters, I've written emails, and it's all just, “Not you, that's not what's going on. You, you are, you are imagining”. And that is very, very difficult to accept. And if it had stopped, to the point where I fled my home country with my wife and son in fear for our lives, then maybe this would have happened differently. It's hard.
Bradby: There's a lot to learn there and we'll do it. But let's start from the beginning. We're going to use parts of your audiobook, which you read yourself, to help get it out to people, and just to be clear, there are times when you just let the narrative roll, because it's amazing storytelling, and other times where I know, I can challenge you on the things you say later. And it begins with the absolutely devastating night his father comes to sit on his bed at Balmoral.
Excerpt from Harry's reading: He sat on the edge of the bed, put his hand on my knee: "Dear boy, Mum has been in a car accident." I remember thinking: “Crash good? But she's fine, okay? I vividly remember that thought running through my mind and I remember patiently waiting for Dad to confirm that Mom was indeed okay, and I remember he didn't.
Then there was an internal change. I began to plead silently to Dad, or God, or both, "No, no, no." The father looked at the folds of old quilts, blankets, and sheets. “There were complications. Mama was badly injured and taken to the hospital, dear boy." She always called me dear boy, but now she said it a lot.
His voice was soft. She was in shock, apparently. "Oh, hospital?" "Yes, with a head injury." Did she mention the paparazzi? Did she say she was harassed? I do not believe. I can't swear to it, but probably not. The paparazzi were such a big problem for Mom, for everyone, that she went without saying. I thought again: 'injured, but she's fine, they've taken her to the hospital, they're going to fix her head and we're going to see her.' Today, no later than tonight'. “They tried, dear boy. I'm afraid she didn't survive.
Bradby: Tell me about that horrible, horrible night.
Harry: Um, you know, thinking back to when I was 12, sitting on that sagging bed, um, at Balmoral Castle, I went back to that time and tried to remember as much as I could. You know, my dad coming in, in his robe and telling me that news, only now as part of writing the book, I really think about how many hours he was awake. And the compassion that I have for him, as a father who has to sit with this for many, many hours, calling his friends, trying to figure out, how the hell do I tell my two children this?
And I never want to be in that position, part of why we're here now, I never, ever want to be in that position. I don't want history to repeat itself. I don't want to be a single parent. And I certainly don't want my children to have a motherless or fatherless life.
Bradby: One of the saddest things I found about the book is the way that, from what I understand, it starts with your mother dying because you have a problem with memories from before that. This is correct? You are a little...
Harry: Yeah Almost That...
Bradby: ...you lost them and that sounds very sad.
Harry: Yes, I know. I lost many memories, on the other side of this mental wall. Um, which, again, I think is so relatable with so many people who have experienced loss, especially when they were young, um, that inability to drag memories back. Um, but I think a lot of it was a defense mechanism.
Bradby: But just in that, one of the things that really struck me about the book is the way you talk about seeming genuinely convinced that your mother was still alive and in hiding.
Harry: You are.
Bradby: I mean, you talk about seeing her in your dreams and going, "Mommy, mommy, is that you?"
Harry: Mm-hmm.
Bradby: I mean, that's a scary description of PTSD, isn't it? I mean, is that what the whole first part of this book is about?
Harry: Yeah, but I, I, I refer to it as PTSD because no, I'm not a person with a disorder. I know that it is not.
Bradby: But you keep it for years, right? I mean, you don't talk about it like sometimes you say your brother, you know, really wanted to talk about it, but you couldn't.
Harry: Um, I cried once, um, at the funeral. Um, and, you know, I go into detail about how, you know, how weird it was and how there really was some guilt that I, that I felt, and I think William felt as well, for walking out of Kensington Palace and the 50,000 bouquets of flowers for our mother. And there we were shaking hands with people, smiling. I saw the videos, right?
I looked back, I look back at everything. And the wet hands that we were squeezing, we couldn't understand why his hands were wet. But it was all the tears that were drying up. So that was really weird for us, you know, young people, you know, 12 and 14 years old at the time and seeing this outpouring of emotions from millions, hundreds of millions of people, and they all thought and felt like they knew our mother. . And the two people closest to her, the two people dearest to her, couldn't show any emotion at that moment.
Bradby: You write about this incredibly moving thing in the book, you write about the funeral and the surreal nature of it. And at one point there's a discussion that maybe William should walk behind the coffin by himself, and you're like, "No, Willy," as you call him, "if the situation was reversed, he'd never let me do it alone." And that's why he decides to do this. But it's a completely surreal moment for the two of you. Right?
Harry: Yeah, I mean, me too, like there were a lot of conversations that happened at times like this that I wasn't a part of, and William wasn't a part of, he was probably more a part of it than I was. But, you know, the decision was made for the two of us to walk behind our mother's coffin. And there's no way I'm letting him do this alone. And there's no way he's letting me do this alone. It was, if it was a role reversal.
Then, you know, it happened, um, the memories of screeching brakes, you know, driving through the mall, helmets falling, concrete and occasionally, you know, gravel underfoot and the moans of the crowd. But otherwise, the complete silence is something that will stay with me forever.
I was recently, me and my brother were taking the same route, and we joked among ourselves and said, 'at least we know the way.' Hmm, but other than that, it was very similar. The only difference was the levels of emotion that our grandmother had put an end to in her life; I think there was more celebration, respect and recognition for what she had accomplished. While our mother was kidnapped at a very young age.
Bradby: Another thing that seems to have stuck with you, and I think it will stick with anyone who reads the book, is that you get to the point where you demand from Jamie, your private secretary, that you want to see the secret government file. . And your description of it is searing.
Excerpt from Harry's reading: Finally, I got to the pictures of Mom. There were lights around her, auras, almost halos. How odd. The color of her streaks was the same color as her hair. Golden. I didn't know what the lights were. I couldn't imagine. I came up with all sorts of supernatural explanations. When I realize the true origin of it, my stomach drops. Blinks. They were flashes, and within some of the flashes were faces and ghostly faces.
Reflected and refracted paparazzi and paparazzi on all smooth metal and glass windshields. Those men who were chasing her. They never stopped shooting at her as she lay between the seats. unconscious or semi-conscious And in her frenzy, they sometimes accidentally photographed each other. None of them looked at her, offered her help or even comforted her. They were just shooting, shooting, shooting.
Harry: The idea that she was taken away and that William and I now had no mother was something I couldn't understand. Like, I had heard people talk about the existence of photographs. At the time, she was beginning to understand the involvement of the paparazzi in her pursuit.
And to this day, I'm forever grateful to Jamie for showing me what I thought I needed to see, but removing the things I knew I didn't need to see. Um, I don't know where he would be right now if he saw the things he wanted to see, that he demanded to see. But I was young...
Bradby: What did you take?
Harry: It took more, more, uh, I think descriptive photos, photos. Um, I saw the photos of all the paparazzi reflections in the window at the same time...
Bradby: Taking pictures of your mother as she's dying instead of helping her.
Harry: Exactly. And that, you know, it still hurts, but you know, I realized that I saw the back of his blond hair, you know, lying on the back of the seat. There were other pictures, um, that would probably show my mother's face and blood. Um, and those, I guess, were the ones that Jamie removed, and I'm grateful to him for that.
But I was, I think at that time I was looking, I was looking, I was looking for evidence that it was so, that it really happened, that it was true. But I was also looking for something to hurt because at that point I was still pretty numb to the whole thing. That was, again, my body, my nervous system shut down and I was like, let's not talk like that.
Bradby: You insist they take you through the tunnel.
Harry: You are.
Bradby: As fast as your mother was traveling. And then you find out that your brother insisted on the same thing separately, you didn't, and that's going to shock people as I think he will again...
Harry: Sim...
Bradby: ...is a remarkable passage to read.
Excerpt from Harry's reading: Then we come to the mouth of the tunnel. We kept going, past the edge of the tunnel entrance, the ledge that supposedly caused Mom's Mercedes to veer off course. But the lip was nothing, we barely felt it. As the car entered the tunnel, I leaned forward, watching the light change to a sort of watery orange, watching the concrete pillars go by. Fffffff, Fphffff Fphffff. I counted them, I counted my heartbeats and in a few seconds we were out on the other side.
I sat down. In a low voice I said: “Is that all? It's nothing, just a straight tunnel. I always imagined the tunnel to be a treacherous passage, inherently dangerous, but it was just a short, plain, simple tunnel. There is no reason for someone to die inside.
Harry: Um, I don't think I would have been able to handle that as a teenager. You know, one time when I was 20 and there for the Rugby World Cup, I thought, you know, "come on, come on, let's do this." But also, again, there were still a lot of unanswered question marks, especially from the investigation. You know, William and I were sitting in a room and we were told that the event was like a bicycle chain.
And if you remove only one of these links in the chain, the end result will not happen. And he, because that was our specific question, he said, "where do the paparazzi fit into this?" And his response was, “do you remove one of those links, namely the paparazzi one? And the result would not have been the same”. mmm well yes...
Bradby: You wanted an investigation. Do you still have doubts about that night? I mean, do you have anything about that night that worries you that hasn't been explained yet? Or do you think...
Harry: There are many things that are not explained. Um, but I've been asked before if I'd like to open a, you know, another query. I don't really see the point at this stage. Um, but I think anyone who knows... again, this is the most amazing thing that, in the last, what, five years, especially the last two years, the number of people I've met here in America, everything the world knows where they were and what they were doing the night my mother died. And I never thought about that.
Yes, yes it was, it wasn't crazy at the time, driving through the tunnel. Um, but as you can imagine, at this point, I was old enough to drive myself. So to sit in the back of a car and have this wonderful Irishman, uh, drive me through the tunnel at the same speed, yet there was no danger of anyone losing control even after a drink or two.
Bradby: Hum.
Harry: Almost physically impossible to lose control of a vehicle unless you're completely blind behind the wheel. So once I started driving myself and the occasions, which were many, back to London after spending the weekend in the country, I would have the paparazzi literally jump on the hood of the car, and I physically couldn't see. nothing.
When you've actually experienced the same thing, which you assume your mother's driver was experiencing at the time, I think it's really hard to understand how some people came to the conclusions that night. And that the people who were predominantly responsible for it got away with it.
And also, um, you know, a lot, a lot of the British press, which was part of it, which fed into, um, they said things were going to change, but they weren't.
Bradby: Let's lighten the tone for a moment, because then we move on to talking about your teenage years, a little chaotic in parts, I think you can, uh, you'll recognise. Um, but there are some fun moments in the book, um, like when you're trying to teach your great-grandma, the Queen Mother, how to do Ali G. Go ahead and do it.
harry: that was it
Bradby: That was it, right.
harry: that was it. I can't do that again because it probably wouldn't work. No, she, she had this amazing wrist flick. Um, and yeah, I'll never forget that, that BBQ night, it was amazing.
I felt, I felt part of the family. I felt like, I felt very different than I felt before this. I felt a little isolated, I felt a little different. I don't know what was going on and maybe it was again, the kind of trauma and pain suppression. But I laughed a lot with my, with my, uh, my Gangan then. And, you know, she was also very close to my father. And that relationship is something that I recognized at the time, but never really thought about in detail.
But then two years of sitting there and writing this book, all these memories come back and I start to be able to put the pieces together, like a puzzle.
Bradby: I'm not going to spoil it, because there's a lot, a lot, a lot of material in there. You know, there you are losing your virginity. I think you know...
Harry: Apparently.
Bradby: Sensitive viewers are leaving now. Hmm…
Harry: It's four lines or something.
Bradby: Right...
Harry: Yes that.
Bradby: ...Okay. Oh, I'm still erasing it from my memory. But it's okay.
Harry: Can we talk about losing your virginity if you want?
Bradby: No, I mean, let's not do that um, er, let's not go there.
There's a fair amount of drugs, um, weed, magic mushrooms, cocaine. I mean, it's going to blow people away.
Harry: But it's important to acknowledge.
Bradby Narrator: "Of course I was using cocaine at the time," Harry admits in the book. "In a country house," he says, adding that he didn't make him happy at all. Feeling different, he writes, was the goal. He was a deeply unhappy 17-year-old, willing to try almost anything to change the status quo.
Bradby: I mean, I think it's an example of the honesty scale. Looks like you're not hiding anything. You tell the cocaine story through this tabloid editor, you said, he came to you and said, I have a picture of you using cocaine. I'm coming…
Harry: It didn't come to me, it came to someone else.
bradby: yeah thats OK. But we're going to release it unless they give us a revealing interview, whichever they want. And you say, "I saw your bluff," and you're very pleased about it. But I just want to be clear, are you really saying that, third in line to the throne or whatever, taking a Class A drug is not a matter of public interest? Because I think that's a question that people will have. Do you accept that it is a matter of public interest for the press?
Harry: I think it's a matter of public interest, it's the relationship between the institution and the tabloids. That to me is more public interest than anything else.
Bradby: Okay.
Harry: But my...
Bradby: ...let's go...
Harry: ...but my life, my very life was put into, you know, a, uh, blender as such. So I think the lines have gotten really blurred, that the public interest is more about the welfare of society, but what's in the public's interest, which is what the media has become now, to the point where they generally believe that. So I would be worried.
Bradby: I wanted to take your childhood, because one of the things that struck me very clearly is your deep love for your father and your father's deep love for you.
Harry: Mm-hmm.
Bradby: I mean, he calls you my love, you bring it up quite often. "He loved him. He needed him. You know, you talk about being moved by praise from him. Right? Now, I, maybe that doesn't surprise people. But it's very, very clear. Right...?
Harry: Sure, it's my dad. I will always love him...
Bradby: Well, not everyone loves their father. I mean, you know, some people do, some don't.
Harry: No, it's true.
Bradby: But it's very clear. I'm just pointing out that it's a very clear message that you seem to want to convey about how much you love him.
Harry: Me – me, me exactly. I love my dad. I love my brother. I love my family. I will always do it. Nothing I did in this book or otherwise was, uh, intended to hurt or hurt you. Um, you know, the truth is something I need to trust. Um, and after many, many years of lies about me and my family, um, there comes a point where, you know, again, going back to the relationship between, um, certain family members and the tabloids, those certain members decided to get into bed with the devil, right?
Bradby: Mm-hmm.
Harry: Uh, to rehabilitate, to rehabilitate her image.
Bradby: You are.
Harry: If you need to do it, or want to do it, you choose to do it. Well, that's a choice. That depends on you. But at the moment when rehabilitation is carried out to the detriment of others, myself, other members of my family, that's when I draw the line. So if that's what you want to do, then you can do it, but no...
Bradby: And that's your cri... your two criticisms of your father, actually, I would say, in short, intimacy and communication issues; he is not there for you as often or in the way that you want him to be.
Excerpt from Harry's reading: It always seemed like I wasn't ready for parenthood: the responsibilities, the patience, the time. Even he, though he was a proud man, would have admitted it. But single parenthood? Dad was never made for this. To be fair, he did try.
Bradby: And at some point, you, you, say that he recognizes that when you actually have mental health issues.
Harry: You are.
Harry reading an excerpt: One night over dinner at Highgrove, Dad and I talked at length about what he had been going through. I gave him the details, told him story after story. At the end of the meal, he looked down at his plate and said quietly, “I guess it's my fault. I should have gotten you the help you needed years ago. I assured him that it wasn't his fault, but I appreciated the apology.
Bradby: And your other criticism is that too often your interests are sacrificed for his, especially when it comes to the press.
Harry: I have a lot of compassion and I, and I, even understand why certain members of my family need to have that relationship with the tabloids. I understand, I understand. I don't agree with that, but I get it. And there were decisions that happened on the other side that were incredibly painful. And they, and on. It didn't stop. It is to continue the whole, to the end.
Um, I wish this would end. I want reconciliation, but first there has to be some accountability. You can't keep telling me I'm delusional and paranoid when all the evidence is put together because I was genuinely terrified of what was going to happen to me. And then we have a 12-month transition period and everyone doubles. My wife shares her experience. And instead of backing down, both the institution and the UK tabloids doubled down on the pressure.
Bradby: Yo, I want to talk briefly about your stepmother and the press because you're constantly biting and you suggest that you're…
Harry: Biting?
bradby: well...
Harry: What, biting about...?
Bradby: Well, as you say, "your interests were sacrificed in your PR alter," to quote, and it sounds like that's what you mean specifically. Now your people can say, well, it's not a crime to go to lunch with journalists.
Harry: Well, I think it's very clear from the book what happened.
Excerpt from Harry's reading: "We support you," we said, "We support Camilla," we said. "Just please don't marry her, just stay together dad." He did not answer. But she responded. Immediately. Shortly after our private meetings with her, he started playing the long game. A campaign aimed at marriage and eventually the Crown, with the blessing of the father, we suppose.
Stories began to appear all over the papers about his private conversation with Willie, stories containing precise details, none of which came from Willie, of course. They could only have been leaked by the other person present.
Harry: None of the things I've said are scathing against any member of my family, especially my stepmother. There are things that happened that were incredibly painful, some in the past, some in the present.
No institution is immune from accountability or responsibility. Therefore, you can't be immune to criticism either. And you talk about, you know, scrutiny and, you know, my wife and I were scrutinized more than probably anyone else. Me, I see a lack of scrutiny from my family regarding a lot of things that happened in the last year.
Bradby: You say that you and you and your brother didn't want her and her father to get married, but you say that on their wedding day, you were very happy for them. I mean, is it really true that you were?
Harry: 100%? Um, you know, William and I wanted our dad to be happy and he seemed to be very, very happy with her. We ask him not to marry. He chose. Um, and that, that's his decision. But the two were and still are very happy together. But unfortunately, with that came some extras...
Bradby: And are you really okay with that? Because you…
Harry: Yeah, that the two of them got married?
Bradby: You are.
Harry: You are.
Bradby: Well, they, and that they're happy, and that you, because I mean, you're not at peace with them being happy, but a lot of people who could be in your circumstances ha-, whose childhood played out the way you did. has, you may not be happy with it and you, I'm just saying, the message of the book seems to be that you're really happy with it?
harry: yes I think there are probably a lot of people who, after seeing the documentary and reading the book, will say, how can you forgive your family for what they did? People have already told me that. And I said, forgiveness is 100% a possibility because I would like to get my dad back. I would like to have my brother back. At the moment I don't recognize them any more than they probably don't recognize me.
Um, but that's a symptom of one of the problems where we're not just talking about family relationships, we're talking about an antagonist, which is the British press, specifically the tabloids who want to create as much conflict as possible. The saddest thing about this is that certain members of my family and the people who work for them are complicit in this conflict.
So even though I would like to have a reconciliation, I would like to be held accountable, I managed to make peace during that time with a lot of things that happened. But that doesn't mean I'm going to let it go. You know, I've made my peace with it, but I'd still like to reconcile. And that would not only be wonderful for us, but it would also be fantastic for them.
Harry Reading Excerpt: My God. Sibling rivalry. I put a hand over my eyes. Still not over it? All heir against replacement. Wasn't it a little late for that jaded childish dynamic? But even if he wasn't, even if Willie insisted on being competitive to turn our brotherhood into some kind of private Olympiad, hadn't he built an insurmountable advantage?
He was married with a baby on the way, while I ate takeout alone at the sink. Daddy's sink. He still lived with dad. Game over man, you won.
Bradby: Oh, your brother's story, I just want to be clear, because I think it's important to what happens later, your brother's story begins with a deep, deep love that you refer to constantly, or often, ¿ TRUE?
Harry: Love, but also separation. What I think is really going to surprise people is the fact that we grew up, I mean our mother would dress us in the same clothes, something that William didn't like, I seem to remember thinking it was very funny, hmm, but the kind of big-sibling rivalry as such, now it's getting really err, I think it's real to me. Like, sorry, okay, for example, I talk about the relationship between me and William at Eton. And the fact that he didn't really want to meet me, and you know, as the little brother, that sucks.
It's like 'Come on, like you dropped me off at Ludgrove and now I'm here at Eton, like hey come on now we're at the same school come on. Um, and he wanted nothing to do with me. And he hurt me at that moment. But now, well, the distance between me and William is very similar to that between Archie and Lili, and seeing Lili obsessing over Archie and Archie saying, 'No, not Lili, I need my space, I need my space,' I understand that now. . I understand the p... I understand how annoying little brother can be to big brother. But at the time, at the time, I didn't get it, I didn't really realize it, but yeah, I always loved my brother.
And I think what will be quite shocking or surprising to people is that after our mother died, we were on different paths. Right? Two people who lived through a very similar traumatic experience but coped with it in two very different ways.
Bradby: You, you have this sibling rivalry with your brother and you, you say that, you know, he, he didn't want you on his turf, at one point there's a discussion, right, about Africa and charity work, and you say that he said 'Oh, Africa is my thing, you can't have it' I mean, and you, you get it, and Kate comes along, but you say you really love her and you see her as the sister you never had. And then you get to that point where you meet the love of your life, you introduce him and...
Harry: They're fans of Suits. Who would have thought?
Bradby: Who knew? Who would have thought?
Harry: I never knew that.
Bradby: But the impression is that they just, almost from the beginning, don't get along. Just?
Harry: Yeah, fair enough. Hmm and…
Bradby: why? I mean, what do you think this was all about?
Harry: Many, many different reasons, but I, look, because I go into too much detail, I really got my hopes up on the idea that, you know, it would be William, Kate, me and whoever. I thought, you know, the four of us, you know, it would bring me and William closer, we could hang out and work together, um, which I did a lot like the third wheel for them, um, which was fun sometimes, but also , sometimes I also find it a little weird.
But yeah, I think, I don't think they expected me to have, or become, in a relationship with someone like Meghan, who has had, you know, a very successful career. There were a lot of stereotypes, which I was also guilty of at first. umm…
Bradby: What do you mean by that?
Harry: American actress, right, um, and that was also coming up in the British press in the media at the time. So, you know, the fact that I had that in the back of my mind, and some of the things that my brother and sister-in-law, some of the ways that they acted or behaved definitely struck me as, unfortunately, the stereotypes it caused them. a bit of a barrier, like, you know, introducing her or welcoming her.
Bradby: What do you mean specifically?
Harry: Well, American actress, divorced, biracial, there's… there's different parts of that and what that could mean, but if you're, like a lot of my family do, if you're reading the press, the British tabloids, in As you live life, there is a trend where you may end up living in the tabloid bubble instead of real reality.
Bradby: Well, let's talk about one of those, the bridesmaids, the miserable story of the bridesmaid, you know, the story where your wife made Kate cry...
Harry: There are already more than 25 versions of this story.
Bradby: Okay, but your version in this book is that it was the other way around, Meghan was the one crying, Kate showed up the next day with flowers to apologize and you're careful to say there's a witness... and that - the one who was that? How do you say – and this has spread – and what – what is your reflection on all this?
Harry: Um, what I still don't know is where it was twisted or inverted.
Bradby: But why wasn't it fixed? It wouldn't have been a difficult thing to do.
Harry: It's a question for them. They were more than happy to make statements for less volatile things. As I understand it, the reason they didn't want to come out and say it wasn't true would lead to 'Well, if it wasn't that, would it be the other way around?' When in reality you didn't need it, I confess that it was the opposite. Sure, tensions were high. But it wasn't a case of 'she did it to...', it's not about that, but the palace could still have come out and said, 'that never happened.'
Bradby: But I read, an internship, you know, you, you have to ask the queen for permission to have a beard for your...
Harry: I did, to keep the beard, yes. Or having a beard, to keep the beard.
Bradby: To keep the beard.
Bradby Narrator: The discussion of the beard is one of the most intriguing in the book. Harry claims that he went to see his grandmother, the Queen, to ask her permission, as necessary, to grow a beard at her own wedding. She was receptive, William was not. Then there was an argument, Harry says, between the two brothers that lasted a week and ended with her brother ordering her, as heir to the shadow, to shave it off.
Bradby: But, I mean, I just read this and I was like, 'What is this really about?' because it is not about having or not having a beard.
Harry: I think, yeah, also, minor details, I think it has a lot to do with, I mean, I mean him as heir/substitute, but also big brother/little brother, right, there's a, there's a – a level of competition there. And again, writing this, I remembered that William himself had a beard and that Grandma and other people, who should count, told him that he had to shave.
Um, the difference to me, yes there was a difference, but the difference to me was, as I explained to my grandmother, that this beard that I still have, that I still wear, felt like the new Harry at the time. . Right?
Almost like a shield for my anxiety. That was—that was the time of my life when—when I—you know, when I—when I grew a beard. Um, and I think William had a hard time being told to shave by other people, and yet here I was on my wedding day wearing a military uniform, I wasn't in the military anymore, hmm, but I was thinking as if I , believed as if I was supposed to shave before my wedding day. And I said, 'Well, I don't think Meghan would recognize me if she walks down the aisle and she sees me without a beard.
Um, and I would feel very, very different without my beard, and that's hard for people who have never grown beards, um, but I hope those people with beards say 'Yeah, no, I understand that, I can understand. '.
Bradby: Look, after the wedding there's some kind of attempted make-up session that you describe, in great detail.
Voiced by Bradby: At one point, Harry reports a clear meeting involving him, William, Kate, and Meghan. He seems to have gone so wrong that he describes Kate gripping the edges of the leather chair so tightly that her fingers were white.
Kate says she owes an apology to Meghan, who previously blamed a moment of Kate's forgetfulness on so-called baby brain. According to Harry, Kate tells Meghan they're not close enough to talk like that and William says, "That's not what you do here in Britain." The encounter ends awkwardly, with a kind of hug.
Bradby: I think this is the point where a lot of people are going to say 'Okay, I get that there was never anything like the Fab Four.' You know, things happened...
Harry: It was something, it was something, it was something that the British press created, that they were able to dissect or, again, build, it also creates competition. Right?
Bradby: Sure.
Harry: The idea of the four of us being together was always a hope for me. Before it was Meghan. Whoever it was. I always hoped the four of us would get along. But, very quickly, it became Meghan versus Kate. And that, when it's revealed so publicly, you can't hide it. Right? Especially when within my family you have newspapers distributed practically in every nearby palace/house.
Um, so yeah, create. create this competition, and if you're the new kid on the block and you come in and you're stealing the spotlight, it's not a spotlight that you asked to be put in or have, a spotlight that the press, the British press, decided for you , presumably from clickbait and selling newspapers, whatever, but just as much as William and Kate suffered from my father and stepmother, or their office, because at the time William married Kate, they went through a lot of the same things that Meg and I went through.
But I've always believed that, well, I'm the spare, I'm no match for my father, I'm no match for my brother, I think this will be absolutely fine. How wrong I was. The same thing that William and Kate experienced with Dad and Camilla happened to us and it also happened in William and Kate's office. But somehow, apparently the same experience that they had, William and Kate, wasn't happening to us.
Bradby: Did your brother his... try to talk you out of marrying Meghan? He never did this?
Harry: It wasn't him, it wasn't him, no, he never tried to talk me out of marrying Meghan, but he did express some concerns, he messed up too soon and said, 'This is going to be very hard for you' and still to this day he hasn't really understood What part of what he was talking about. Um, but maybe, you know, maybe he foresaw how the British press would react.
Excerpt from Harry's reading: 'Meg is difficult,' he said. "Really?" "She's rude, aggressive, cut off from half the team." It was not the first time that she repeated the narrative of the press. Tough duchess, all that shit.
Bradby: I think the big surprise, you know, there are a lot of surprises in the book, but I guess the big surprise is, you know, you say at one point your brother comes back and you have an argument that ends -- I mean, I'd say than with a fight, but really, in your opinion, it's not a fight because you don't fight back.
Excerpt from Harry's reading: It all happened so fast. Very fast. He grabbed me by the neck, ripped off my necklace and threw me to the ground. I landed in the dog bowl, which split on my back. The pieces cutting me. I stood there for a moment, in a daze, then got up and told him to go away. 'Come hit me, you'll feel better if you hit me.' 'Do what?' 'Come on, we always used to fight, you'll feel better if you hit me.' 'No, you'll only feel better if I hit you. Please just go away'.
He left the kitchen, but he didn't leave Nott Cott. She was in the living room, I realized. I stayed in the kitchen. Two minutes passed, two long minutes, she came back with an apologetic face and apologized. She walked towards the front door, this time I followed him, before leaving she turned and yelled at me 'You don't need to tell Meg about this'. 'You mean you attacked me?' 'I didn't attack you, Harold.' 'Okay, I won't tell him.
Bradby: Now, that's an extraordinary statement, I mean, what would it be? What the hell was that?
Harry: William and I, like I think a lot of brothers, or maybe not, William and I used to fight all the time. Now, the difference is we were kids, we used to shoot each other with BB guns, we used to have fireworks fights, all those things that I talk about in the book.
Um, what was different here was this level of frustration and, you know, I'm talking about the red haze that I've had for so many years, and I saw this red haze on him. Um, and I can assure you today that if I wasn't doing therapy sessions like I used to and not being able to process that anger and frustration, I would have struggled 100%.
Um, but I didn't, because I was in a more comfortable place with my own anger. Um, but he was very…he was…he wanted me to…hit him back, but I decided against it. Um, but again, a lot of the relationship between me and William and the way it developed was due to the narrative, or the distorted narrative that was going around in the British press. And some people inside his office who told him nonsense.
Bradby: A: The description of many, many pages and chapters of her relationship with her brother ends in this extraordinary and moving scene on the day of her grandfather's funeral.
Excerpt from Harry's reading: I walked away, refusing to meet his eyes. He forced me to look into his eyes, 'Listen to me Harold, listen, I love you Harold, I want you to be happy', the words came out of my mouth, 'I love you too, but your stubbornness is extraordinary' "And isn't it yours? " I walked away again. He grabbed me again, turning me to maintain eye contact.
'Harold you must listen to me, I just want you to be happy, Harold, I swear, I swear on the life of mommy.' Unemployment. I stop. The father stopped. He had gone there, he had used the secret code, the universal password, since he was a child these three words were to be used only in moments of extreme crisis, 'in mommy's life'.
For nearly 25 years, we've reserved this heartbreaking vow for times when one of us needed to be heard, to be believed quickly, for times when nothing else would do. He left me paralyzed, like it was supposed to be. Not because I used it, but because it didn't work. I just didn't believe him.
Bradby: Just reading it, as everyone will think, I think, whoever reads this, whatever attitude they come to this story with and just find it heartbreaking.
harry: you...
Bradby: It's heartbreaking.
Harry: It's heartbreaking. This is all completely, not just unnecessary, it's incredibly sad. But there's a... there's a way to get over it, there's a way out of it. And that's what I'm focused on right now. Um, but yeah, it's heartbreaking.
Bradby: What would you say to William if he was watching this?
Harry: What would you say to him if you were watching this?
Bradby: Well, what do you think he's thinking?
Harry: I won't share - I won't share what I say...
Bradby: Okay, no, no, it's not personal, let me ask you a different question. What do you think William will be thinking if he looks at this or if he reads your book?
Harry: I don't believe, I don't believe that my father or my brother lean the book. I really hope you hagan. Pero no creo que lo hagan. And regarding this interview I – I don't know if they're going to, you know, watch this or not, but, what they have to say to me and what I have to say to them will be in private, and I hope it can stay so.
Because the last time we were together was during, you know, our... or the Queen's funeral. And that, in my opinion, and I think people worldwide felt the same way, it was a very good opportunity to bring the family together.
Um, but the day that she died was, was, was a very, very horrible reaction from my family members and by all accounts certainly from what I saw and what probably other people experienced was that they had to give a step back and then the briefings and the pouring and the planting, I thought, 'We're here to celebrate Grandma's life and mourn her loss, can we come together as a family?' but I don't know, I don't know, we know how we do together - how we change it.
Bradby: You, you say you expected the conversations to be private, you just put a lot of private conversations in the public domain and your brother wouldn't say to you, 'Harry, how could you do this to me? After everything we've been through?" Isn't that what you would say?
Harry: He'd probably say all sorts of different things. But you know, in the last few years, let's focus on the last six years, the level of planting and leaks by other members of the family means that, in my opinion, they have written countless books, certainly millions of words have been spent dealing with destroy my wife and myself to the point of having to leave my country. The twisted narrative is that we wanted to go out and, you know, make money.
We were dedicated to a life of service, as evidenced by everything we're doing now with the work we do. And the proposal was very much on the table, publicly, which is that we cannot deal with this situation and we are going to put our mental health first, we are asking for help and support.
At the time, I did not fully understand how much, or how complicit, the family was in the pain and suffering that my wife was going through, and the only group of people that could have helped or prevented this from happening were the people themselves. who they were... who encouraged this to happen.
And now I sit here in front of you asking for a family. Not an institution. I want a family. And I understand how difficult it can be for them to separate them, but for me everything that I have witnessed and experienced over the years, there needs to be a separation.
Bradby: You're going to sit reeling at that level of personal revelation, aren't you? And that, and that's going to piss some people off. We have to be honest about this.
harry: of course
Bradby: And some people will say that you've been fighting invasions of your privacy your whole life, the… the charge will be here, you're invading the privacy of your loved ones without permission, that's going to be the charge, right? ?
Harry: That will be the charge of people who don't understand, or don't understand, or don't want to believe that my family has been solidly reporting to the press for over a decade. So I'm sorry that acknowledging my story and being able to tell my own story is upsetting to some people.
But I have to trust the truth and I've done everything humanly possible in private not to get to that point, but now I can tell my story and as Tom said, none of this is meant to harm anyone. in my family. But I certainly feel that we should, that we never needed to be here.
Bradby: But his brother's portrayal hurts him, I mean people can choose not to accept him or whatever, but it hurts him. Now, if he was sitting in the living room, I think he'd say 'Look, you know, the reason we had that discussion in the cabin was because of personnel issues' and I won't go into that because you know, you talk about it in the book, um, and people can make their own judgments, but, you know, he sensed there was a problem, you know, he... I guess he would say he found you emotional, defensive, couldn't talk to you, what found it extraordinarily frustrating, and you know, kind of like... things...
Harry: It's quite a list - list of things, assumptions you're making, but...
Bradby: Well, I'm just… no, no, I'm just saying that I think it would be the counter-narrative of the other side, that that's not the truth, that the truth is more nuanced and everything else. Right? That would be the defense.
Harry: Well, the truth, supposedly at this point, is that there's only one side to this story. Right? But there are two sides to every story. And you know, I've put a lot of work and effort into resolving my own trauma from many, many years ago, and I'll continue to work on that and I think other people in my family could provide that support. too. Because certainly from my perspective, um, you know, I learned a lot. Once again in the book I talk about unconscious prejudice and being called a racist by the British press.
Look how different it is now. But I was called a racist when I was 20 years old for mistakes I made. They never meant to harm anyone, but I do recognize in this a level of unconscious bias within me that probably came from a combination of my upbringing, things I was exposed to, and things I saw in the media. And I made the decision to correct that mistake.
I wanted to be part of the solution instead of part of the problem. And that required a lot of hard work because he couldn't understand 'why do they call me a racist?' Of course, because of what I did, I felt that way.
But he knew that he was not racist. But I made an active decision to make sure that the British press and the public knew that it wasn't, because it was a horrible place to be, a horrible thing to be called. But there was a level of unconscious bias within me that needed to be confronted.
Bradby: Do you still think there is any realistic possibility of a reconciliation that you have so clearly expressed that you want?
Henry: 100%. I really believe that and I hope that when I get to that stage, when there can be a constructive conversation, I tried again, I spent a lot of money on the legal attempt to find some form of reconciliation, and it almost feels like this status quo internally, they feel like it's better to somehow keep us the villains instead of, I really believe and hope, that the reconciliation between us and my family has a ripple effect all over the world. Maybe that's lofty, maybe that's naive, whatever. But I'm really sorry.
And knowing the monarchy as I do from something I grew up on, for me it's always been about bringing people together. And it breaks my heart that the British tabloids have managed so successfully (hopefully) to create this division and conflict at the same time as a culture war in the UK. So you talk about peace. Peace can happen when there is truth. And between me and my family it's up to us to reconcile, but the only way that can happen is by keeping that, the antagonist out of it.
Bradby: Finally, subject-wise, this is sort of a Shakespearean tale, it's…
Harry: You've probably read more Shakespeare than I have.
Bradby: Well, possibly, but you know, it's a very well written book...
Harry: Not as much as my dad, but...
Bradby: Vale, vale, vale, vale.
Harry: Probably - you're up there.
Bradby: Yeah, yeah. Yeah, and I think listening to you now, the danger is that maybe… in the book, they might say to you, 'Look, you've just destroyed any chance of reconciliation.'
Harry: Well, they have shown absolutely no willingness to reconcile up to this point. And I'm not sure how honesty is burning bridges. You know, silence only allows the abuser to abuse. Right? So I don't know how staying silent will make things better. This is genuinely what I believe.
Excerpt from Harry's reading: How lost we are, I thought, how far we've strayed. How much damage was done to our love, to our bond and why? All because a terrible mob of clinically diagnosable sadistic low-income idiots and old women and criminals along Fleet Street feel the need to have fun, increase their profits and solve their personal problems by tormenting a very big, very old and very dysfunctional. .
Bradby: Let's get to the press, I just want to concede a few things so we don't have to talk about them because it's very clear in the book, horrible paparazzi around your mother, still very horrible today, I totally understand I think. everyone looking at this, go figure, the press doesn't always tell the truth about you, to say the least, and you're pretty funny about that in the book, that relationship with you, there's your relationship with Cameron Diaz, who you are. we never met and yes there are some lighter moments in the discussion of the press so please understand, and were there any negative stories written about you and your wife during that time? Obviously there were, they're there, you can see them, so let's just admit all that and everything else. But…
Harry: It's good that you concede... concede.
Bradby: Well, no, I'm just saying they're indisputable starting points, you know?
Harry: But they, but, but some people still argue against it.
Bradby: Right, okay, that seems a bit obvious. I wanted to talk to you about, it's quite often in therapy people start with a baseline, um, which is the serenity prayer which I know you're familiar with, I'm not going to turn this into a therapy session, no No. Worry , but um, but the serenity prayer is, we can, you know, 'Oh God, give me the serenity to accept what I can't change, the courage to change what I can, and the wisdom to know the difference,' so One thing I can tell you is that there is a big, big, big difference between you and your family that I understand, they are in option one, they can't change the press, just accept it, you are in option two, I have to do something to In this regard, the press, if I don't stand up to what I see as these abuses, no one else will.
But his focus, which is regular; in a free country you have to have a free press, people in power, you, your family have to be scrutinized, someone has to do it, we just have to rub against them. This is not bad, right? Isn't that attitude a crime?
Harry: No, the ballot, 100% the press…
Bradby: But the acceptance of, you know, you just... you can't control it, that's what I mean.
Harry: Well, my family tried to control her for years, and still do, because of her relationship with the British press.
Bradby: But that's not based on a basic...
Harry: It is, it's something they don't want to change because it benefits them. Right?
Bradby: It doesn't always benefit them.
Harry: No, not always, of course...
Bradby: Like you said.
Harry: Of course not, yes.
Bradby: But your father's attitude, for example, is... you know, he says in the book, 'Dear boy, you can't handle this, you know, don't read it or you don't...', and pass Pass , and I understand...
Harry: But it happens – does it happen?
bradby: well...
Harry: Is it over?
Bradby: You, you, okay, let me ask you…
Harry: Me, I left the country and for 12, for 12 months he was relentless. Then again, one of the reasons I'm moving – on a mission to change the UK media landscape from the personal to my life's work – is largely due to ongoing legal battles. Right?
Specifically with phone hacking. That, I made my claims over three years ago and I'm still waiting. So one can assume that a lot of this from their perspective is retaliation and an attempt to intimidate me into a deal rather than taking it to court and potentially having to shut down.
bradby: but you...
Harry: But that's a big part of it.
Bradby: Okay, but can you explain that? As many people watching this show will have no idea what you are talking about, the phone hack happened a decade ago, it has been forgotten and who you are suing against and why...
Harry: But you probably know more than me, don't you?
Bradby: Well, we... it's news, we follow it.
Harry: Go ahead, come in fi… how – you go first, how…
Bradby: Well, you have three...
Harry: As a journalist... as a journalist, keep going.
Bradby: Okay, you've got three cases, very rarely referred against News Group, that you know, may or may not go to court, you've got a case against Mirror that may or may not go to court and you've -- with other , including Doreen Lawrence, the mother of Stephen Lawrence, but you -- filed a lawsuit against The Mail.
I have to say that in all three cases the allegations are very serious and the stakes are very high, I mean, I would certainly say that, like The Mail, you're suggesting, you know, that they hired private investigators to hack into people's data . houses houses to plant a listening device i mean this is off the scale they absolutely deny it.
Let's be clear, you owe them a pretty abject apology if it's not right, if it's not proven because...
Harry: Well, if they weren't, if I'm not mistaken, they'd probably sue us.
Bradby: Well, look, but these are serious allegations, and this raises the stakes...
Harry: Put – put – yes.
Bradby: …extremely strong.
Harry: Yeah, no, 100%, yeah, putting those – putting those statements was – was an acceptance of the repercussions, but the most worrying thing is that those repercussions are so obvious, I think, in the British press that there's no one but, If they want to hold us and the rich and powerful to account, and they want to police society, then who polices them? This is something William and I have talked about for many, many years. Who watches them?
And I think, again, what happened to my wife and what happened to us happens to a lot of people on a daily basis, because of the British press. Because of the racism, because of the patronage, because of the lies, you know, my dad told me that it was probably a suicide mission to try to change, to try to change the press.
But you know, having spent 10 years in the military, I've learned a specific set of values, and if I see any bugs, I'm drawn to trying to fix them. Especially when I had the unique perspective that I had, I looked behind the curtain and you know, if I can't continue to serve my country while I'm in the UK, for a number of different reasons, one of them being a lack of security. , I will continue to serve my country from abroad .
Um, and changing the media, which I think is at the epicenter of so many problems across the UK where people are suffering, so I'm going to try and make a difference. And it can be incredibly difficult, and I don't know how long it's going to take, but it's 100% worth it because again, it goes back to what I said earlier, which is I'm happy they talk shit. about me every day because I know I don't... It's true, what I draw is when you are inciting hatred towards me and/or my wife and children.
Bradby: But the thing is, you're probably the most famous person on the planet right now. For example, if it's not a horrible article in a newspaper, it's going to be there on Twitter, so what your family can say to you is 'Look, you just can't, you have to let it go, you can. no, you can't fight everything' and now I understand your narrative is 'if I don't face what I don't believe in...' but there is no danger that, given your background and trauma, you can't. more logical view also, since it is permanently at war and the media is seen as a kind of entity.
Harry: No, I'm not permanently at war. I - I made my peace with her; I was willing to let a lot of that come back in 2020 when we left the country. And if you live in a new country, you mind your own business during lockdown, you don't say anything, you don't do anything that affects the British media, every day there's an attack, well then, the assumption that it will go away or continue forward. It is not the case. So, you know, I feel like there's a responsibility to see this through to the end, because I think the benefits will be felt for a lot of people. Um, you know, I also talk about Caroline Flack in the book.
Um, but, you know, when we talk about responsibility, you know, recently, which I know you know, um, you know, the Jeremy Clarkson article, so not only what he said was horrible and it's painful and cruel to my wife , but it also encourages others in the UK and around the world, particularly men, to think that it is acceptable to treat women in this way. Um, and you know, to use my stepmom's words recently as well, there's a global pandemic of violent violence against women.
It's not that I'm asking for responsibility anymore, but right now the world is asking for responsibility. And the world is asking for some kind of comment on the monarchy. But the silence is – is – is deafening. To say the least. So I think we've gone from being, you know, just my people, whatever you want to call it, much, much, much bigger than us.
And from what I've learned and believe about the monarchy, if anyone in this country, if anyone, especially in the US, doesn't name names, or tweets, or says certain things that are categorically harmful and dangerous, they have the president. and the vice president is against it. But, everything that has to do with my wife, after six years, they have not said anything. But they are willing to defend themselves regularly.
And, you know, all we've asked for in the last few, certainly in the last few years, is some accountability. And I am very happy that Ngozi Fulani has been invited to the palace to sit down with Lady Susan Hussey and reconcile, because Meghan and I love Susan Hussey. She thinks she's cool. And I also know what she meant: she never meant any harm, but the response from the British press and people online to the stories they wrote was horrible. The response was absolutely horrible.
Bradby: One last question about the press quickly. You - you say they are accomplices, counter argument; it's more complicated than that. Journalists, you know, it's like covering politics, journalists cover politics, they hang out with ministers, they gossip, sometimes people gossip too much, sometimes it's a leak, sometimes it's not a leak, you run the risk of looking at it one way way too one dimensional?
Harry: No no no no. I think that about sums it up. Some of their leaks, some of their plantations, but I think what people are starting to understand now is that a real source is not an unknown person, it's the palace specifically reporting to the press but covering their tracks by not being identified. . And I think that's very shocking to people.
Especially when you realize how many palace sources, people inside the palace, palace, high palace officials, how many quotes are attributed to these people, some of the most heinous and horrible things that have been said about me and my wife, um , completely forgiven by the palace because it comes from the palace, and these journalists have literally been fed this narrative without getting to us, without seeing or questioning the other side. I strongly believe that the way the British press is presenting itself at the moment is incredibly damaging to the UK.
Bradby: Some things, you talk about responsibility, in the Oprah interview you accused members of your family of racism, you didn't even…
Harry: No, I didn't.
Bradby: Well, of…
Harry: The British press said it.
Bradby: Right. I…
Harry: Has Meghan ever mentioned that they are racist?
Bradby: You said there have been concerning comments about Archie's skin color.
Harry: There was, there was concern about the color of his skin.
Bradby: Right. Wouldn't you describe that as essentially racist?
Harry: Not me, because I didn't live in that family.
Bradby: Right. But you do not…
Harry: So back, back to the difference between what I understand from my own experience, the difference between racism and unconscious bias, the two things are different. But once it's recognized, or pointed out to you as an individual or as an institution, that you have an unconscious bias, you have an opportunity to learn and grow from that so that you're part of the solution rather than part of the problem. Otherwise, the unconscious bias falls under the category of racism.
Bradby: But I guess there's no danger of people thinking the wrong way. You know, you didn't identify which family members...
Harry: And I'll never talk, and I'll never talk about it. I mean, what happened with Ngozi Fulani is a really good example of the environment inside the institution and why, after our interview with Oprah, they said they were going to bring in a diversity czar. This did not happen. Everything they said was going to happen did not happen. I've always been open to helping them understand their part in this, and especially when you're the monarchy, in the… you have a responsibility, and rightly so, people hold you to a higher standard than others.
Surely the media should. Right? So, as I've learned from my own experience and from what I've seen and heard, yes, you're right, the key word is worry, which was worrying. But you talk to any other couple, a mixed-race couple all over the world, and you'll probably find that the white side of the family has discussed it openly or secretly, you know, 'What will the kids look like?' And this is part of a larger conversation that needs to be had.
But, to say that this doesn't happen in the rest of the world, but just happened there, is not true, but again for me, the difference is unconscious prejudice and racism, but if that, if you're called unconscious bias, you need correct this. And you have the opportunity and the choice. But if you choose not to, it quickly escalates into something much more serious.
Excerpt from Harry's reading: My problem was never with the monarchy, nor with the concept of monarchy. It has been with the press and the unhealthy relationship that has developed between it and the palace. I love my country, I love my family and I always will. I just wish that in the second darkest moment of my life, they were both there for me. And I think one day they will look back and wish they had too.
Bradby: Do you still believe in the monarchy?
harry: yes I talk about this in the book.
Bradby: Do you think you'll play a role in the future?
Harry: I don't know. I really don't know.
Bradby: Do you expect so?
Harry: No, it's not about waiting, you know, going back to the initial pitch, we always wanted to keep serving, we just didn't want to be based and live in the UK all the time. One of the main reasons for this was to get away from this competition that was happening for the covers.
So, you know, if my dad asks us for support across the Commonwealth, it's certainly an open discussion, but I'm here now, Tom, and my family is here now. You know, we're doing the same thing, the same job there, with no taxpayer funding, right, yeah, it's not how I wanted it to be, but now I've created a life for my family that I feel more secure in. Right? So who knows what will happen?
Bradby: If you're invited to the coronation, will you come?
Harry: There are a lot of things that can happen between now and then. But, you know, the door is always open. A – the ball is in your court. There's a lot to discuss and I really hope that they can, that they're willing to sit down and talk about it, because a lot has happened in six years. And before that too.
Bradby: There are a lot of people in Britain who support you, a lot of people in Britain who are upset with you and I wish you would shut up and stop talking about it and let it go...
Harry: Stop talking about what?
Bradby: The issues that you brought up during this interview, you know, not talking about your family, not talking about the press, not talking about all those things and I think there are some people in the middle who are listening but they think 'It seems to take a long time. looking back, not looking forward', you're like, okay, you wanted to leave the family, start a new life, that's great, good for you, but there's a danger that you're looking too far back, do you think ? Do you worry about yourself?
Harry: We always knew that those two projects, both the Netflix documentary and the book, one is our story and the other is my story, were retrospective projects. Right? They were necessary, they were essential, [Mm]um, to historical fact and meaning. I don't want my kids or anyone else of that age to grow up thinking, 'Wow, this is what happened,' like no, that's not what happened. That was what happened.
Bradby: Hum.
Harry: Right, every story has two sides, so you know, it's been… it's been a painful, um, cathartic process at times, but going back to the old days to get these projects right, um, it took a lot of energy. . And there's a lot of relief now that those two projects are finished, and now we can focus on looking forward, and that excites me. So no, I'm not stuck in the past and I never will be stuck in the past.
I'm... I've come to terms with a lot of what happened, but I'm still patiently awaiting accountability. Not necessarily just for us, but for the meaning that I know it will have for many other people.
Bradby: If there's an account, if there's a process, I mean, do you admit you were wrong?
Harry: I'm sure, I'm sure I've done things wrong, but I've continued for the last three or four years, asking you to tell me what we did wrong so we can fix it and apologize for it. stuff. But every time he asked, he got nothing in response.
Bradby: But where are you now? I think that's a question that people have at the end of it all, are you... are you happy? You are…
Harry: Yes, I'm very, very happy, I'm very calm. I'm in a better place than ever, and I think that probably upsets some people, angers some people, because just by the nature of my leaving, I'm sure some people always thought Meghan was leaving. true, but I think they never thought that she would leave me either, but leaving that is, it is embarrassing for some people.
Um, like I said, it wasn't something that I would have necessarily chosen at the time, but you know, I own my story, uh, and I own the results. But I have two beautiful children and an amazing wife, such happiness in my family now that I have never felt anywhere else before.
Bradby: One last thing then, picking this up...
Harry: You are.
Bradby: Happiness and peace are your nuclear family, it's being outside of it, it's being physically away from things that annoy you like the press. What is what…
Harry: Safety, my family's safety is my priority. Right.
Bradby: Sure.
Harry: And that's the main reason we left. Unfortunately, the circumstances there have not changed, in fact, they have only gotten worse. Um, I feel safe here, my family feels safe here, um, I'm happy, my family is happy, it's hard to go back.
Um, but, I'm so right in my head right now that whatever conversations need to happen, or whatever the future holds up to the point where there can be reconciliation and there's anyone, whatever comes out of that, that I'm in a really nice place to be able to have those conversations and come back and not linger, or not let it stop me, you know what I mean.
So yeah, it's been, it's been, it's been hard, I'm not going to lie, it's been very hard at times, but I think there are also a lot of people who refuse to accept that I could be happy here because of what I've left behind. But the reality is that I have never been happier.
Bradby: Well listen, we've known each other a long time, we've done a lot of interviews and a lot has happened, your life has been hectic to say the least. What I would say is, you know, whatever people say, I don't think anyone is going to read this and not go through this, so thanks for taking the time. Nice to see you as always.
Harry: Thanks for coming.